Correspondence from a man who denies the Atonement

On September 5th, of this year (2011) I received an email from a guy asking me to respond to the following questions. His email is below:

Robert,

I just read your salvation plan, and want to ask you if you would consider answering a few questions to what you are teaching as truth.

1, Does one have to stop sinning to be saved, such as porn watching, fornication, a thief, drunkard, to receive the mercy of God and forgiveness? (through true biblical repentance)

2, Is Christ our substitution or our example to follow, another words did He die to cover our sins and become our righteousness, or to ransom us from the bondage's of sin, putting to death by His blood the works of the devil, so we can nor follow His example?

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Tommy

I read his email and thought not much of it, so I happily responded in the following manner.

Thanks for your questions. I'll be happy to answer.

Question 1: "Does one have to stop sinning to be saved, such as porn watching, fornication, a thief, drunkard, to receive the mercy of God and forgiveness?"

Answer: According to the Bible, salvation is not by what you DO (i.e. stop sinning to get or stay saved), it's by receiving by FAITH what Jesus Christ has already DONE for you on the cross of Calvary. Eph. 2:8,9 state: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Notice salvation is by FAITH, and not anything you do of yourself. It is a GIFT of God, not of WORKS, and it's not something you can BOAST about (like saying, look what I stopped doing!)
Should you stop doing those things? BY ALL MEANS YES! We shouldn't do those things at all. But salvation is not dependent upon what you do or don't do, it's dependent upon whether or not you choose to accept what Jesus DID for you when he died on the cross to pay for your sins of "porn watching, fornication, thievery, drunkeness, etc."
Repentance means two things: 1. To feel sorry for something and 2. To turn from one thing to another. That's what repentance is. Do you feel sorry for putting Christ Jesus on the cross? For it was your sins that placed him there. And are you willing to turn from trusting yourself to trusting in Jesus alone for salvation?

Question 2: "Is Christ our substitution or our example to follow, another words did He die to cover our sins and become our righteousness, or to ransom us from the bondage's of sin, putting to death by His blood the works of the devil, so we can nor follow His example?"

Answer: Good question! The answer is he is both! He died for our sins as our substitute. 1 Peter 3:18 is a good verse: "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit." Notice this verse says that Jesus suffered for our sins. He was the just, we are the unjust. He was our substitute dying for OUR sins in OUR place. However, yes, he is also a great example for us to follow. We should follow him and try to live like he did. We should try to live a holy life.

You ask, "did He die to cover our sins and become our righteousness or to ransom us from the bondage of sin, putting to death by his blood the works of the Devil..."?

He did die to PAY for our sins. However, we must accept his payment by faith in order to be forgiven personally and have our sins washed away. He is only our righteousness when we receive him by faith, then and only then does he make us righteous. His blood did not "put to death the works of the Devil." I don't know where you got that. The devil is still alive today and working in doing evil all the time. And Yes, Jesus wants us to separate ourselves from sin, however, we are still sinners. There are only two types of sinners: Saved Sinners and Lost Sinners. In other words, Sinners who have been born again and Sinners who have not been born again. Which are you?

Romans 3:25-28 below are some good verses that should answer your questions better than I could...

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Notice it says that Christ is our PROPITIATION (or substitute) THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD. Is your faith in his blood? It says that when you trust his blood, you are declaring HIM righteous, and not yourself. It is Jesus who justifies us by faith, not by our own works, and not by the deeds of the law.

Hope this answers your questions.

Robert Breaker

This man responded to me in a way that it made me think he wasn't saved. For what I read was a man who seemed to be denying the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. His response follows:

Thank you Robert for your honest answers, I know what you sent you believe with all your heart, and teach it to many, but I cannot accept what you wrote as truth, you have been greatly deceived, and deceiving many.

The true Gospel is simple, and I send you these tract's that can save you from your errors if you take it to heart, repent from your false teachings, and seek mercy while you can. 2 Corin 7-10!

Everything But the Truth!

You are standing on a foundation made of Straw. By the slick use of Language the ultimate ruse has been perpetrated on mankind and deeply ground into his physic. It concerns forgiveness of sins by God, better known as the ‘Atonement’ With a Vast majority of the people on earth in the so-called ‘Christian’ camp, this subject is of the utmost importance to their eternal well being.

Most Christians (of all the various groups) believe that Jesus Christ, the Messiah, came to earth as a Man and died on the Cross ‘in their place’, to forgive the sins of the World. Whereas He made ‘Atonement’ for them and ‘IF’ they Trust and Receive His free Gift they are ‘Saved’ from the Wrath of God and destined for eternal paradise at the end. Thus this is the end to all their Preaching and Evangelism, throughout the entire world, regardless which group or Doctrinal System they are derived from.

The idea behind this ‘Atonement’ is based on a Substitution, Representation Model established firmly in ‘Reformed’ theology. Most of the Preaching however is very much simplified in the Pulpits at a human level so that it will appeal to the minds of the people. The more complicated issues of Doctrine are avoided to maintain an aura of Mystery about the things of God. Thereby a person need not understand the whole spectrum of theology behind it all, just ‘Accept’ it as Truth.

In this manner most Professing Christians are able to have a degree of assurance that God has genuinely forgiven their Sins and will take them to Heaven when they die; Although they remain vile sinners here on earth, hopelessly addicted to their base Nature (born into them) and unable to ever cease from sinning daily in thought, word and deed. Accordingly the ‘Representation’ aspect of their belief System supports this conclusion with flying colors! If Jesus Stands ‘in my Stead’ and suffers the Punishment I deserve what remains to be done? He has Done it all, in my place because I was ‘UNABLE’ to do it myself. My ‘TRUST’ seals the transaction and now God can no longer hold me accountable for my sins. (even though I continue in them.)

By design the ‘Christian’ Religion has set forth a VERY POOR example to the World for any real Moral uprightness in the people who profess it. And the reason is quit Simple. They have foolishly embraced a Massive Fallacy concerning the ATONEMENT! One that removes the guilt of their sin without actually removing the sin itself. Consequently the Jesus they believe in serves as a Representative ‘in their place’ NOT as an example to follow after. (1Pet2:21) The Condition of this supposed Salvation is founded on the ‘Not of Works’ mantra. So the Vast Majority of professed Christians trust in a God that requires nothing of them (but to believe) and will not hold them accountable for their on going wrong doings. When pure common sense dictates to the human mind that everyone will Reap what they have sown. (Gal6:7-8)

Hence Logic is removed from the equation. People can hold to ANY System of Doctrine in the Christian religion as long as it is based on this fallacy. But the entire structure of this system comes crashing down on the interpretation of a simple ‘Preposition’ If my hope of Salvation is based on Jesus dying on the Cross ‘FOR’ me, Does that mean ‘in my place’, ‘instead of me’ OR ‘ON MY BEHALF’ ? Does it Matter which definition I believe in, on whether or not I’m really Saved from my sin? When it comes to True Redemption, it matters a GREAT deal!

Atonement founded on Substitution means that the retributive Justice of God has been poured out on Jesus instead of me. It also means (in most interpretations) that the Moral Righteousness and Obedience of Christ is transferred to me by faith. Once I trust in this arrangement there is Nothing to secure my own Obedience to God or motivate me to follow His example. Everything has been done ‘in advance’,. My sins, Past, Present and Future are ‘Done away’ on the Cross with Jesus. The only thing that changed is my Status with God who has now reconciled Himself to my sinful ‘Condition’. My Justification is secured in Christ and cannot be reversed.

However IF indeed the truth is that He died ‘ON MY BEHALF’ as an Offering for Sin, (as Christians believed for the first 1000 years of their existence) then the Retributive Justice of God has NOTHING to do with it. Therefore Redemption is based on a ‘Return to Favor’ on Condition of me forsaking my sins and obeying God. The entire process turns on a faith PROVEN by DEEDS, (Acts26:18-20) just as the Bible Says.

In Repentance I die with Christ (to sin) and my heart is made PURE by Faith Working by Love! Now I Obey God Cleansed, Purged and Scrubbed Clean of all my overflow of wickedness and defilement able to Receive with meekness the implanted Word that can Save my Soul. (Rom6:4-6, James1:21-23) I Come Sorrowing after the Mercy of God, CLEARED of my wrong doings by forsaking them and making restitution where necessary. Vehemently desiring in my heart to Obey Him with great zeal, presuming nothing and plead for Reconciliation. (This is the Model of Redemption set forth in the Bible! 2Cor7:10-11)

A FAR Cry from someone swapping places with me and Magically transferring the Virtue of Christ to my account. The Substitution Changes God by appeasing His Wrath (which is spent on Jesus) while Man remains unchanged still a ‘sinner’ by Nature. All Because of the faulty translation of a simple preposition, that common sense and logic show throughout the Scriptures that it is Something Done on one’s BEHALF NOT ‘in their place’. (Gal3:13) This is the reason people will jump through fiery hoops to Conjecturally prove their Doctrinal theories are true and that the Bible cannot be taken in a Literal sense especially when Obedience and Purity are involved. (1Tim1:5)

Think about it a moment. You believe that Jesus died on the Cross ‘in your place’ and took on Himself your sins and the penalty due them. If you TRUST in that, and perform whatever ritual the church you attend demands, you are Saved. The remainder of your new ‘Christian’ life is now relational whereas no further condemnation can befall you. That was taken care of on the Cross. Neat arrangement, BUT unfortunately it was invented in the Mind of man, not God.

On the other hand IF Jesus offered Himself ‘for my sin’ and became a Curse on ‘my behalf’ (Gal3:13, 2Cor5:21) I now have the opportunity to approach God for Reconciliation, in Repentance and faith and plead for His Mercy. The heart change comes ‘in the process’ of my godly sorrow for sin. Therefore I TOUCH the Blood of Christ in reality and DIE ‘WITH’ Him by Example and become Truly Purified by Faith! (Heb9:14) A HUGE DIFFERENCE in the outcome, wouldn’t you say? In the Former I’m Cloaked and Covered in my sins. In the Latter I am Released from my bondage to sin and saved from its Corrupting influence. The Works of the Devil are Destroyed! (1John3:8)

Thus the True Meaning of Bible Redemption: ‘Release from bondage by Payment of Ransom!’ What Jesus did on the Cross was NOT take anyone’s place, BUT Provide Himself as an Offering to Ransom Man and turn him from Darkness to Light, from the Power of Satan to God! Hence the ‘Works’ of the Devil are Destroyed and Man can be Restored to an upright heart. Now the Bible makes sense! DEEDS will be the deciding factor in your final Salvation, not some mystical Trust in an illusion. (Rom2:7-8, 1Pet1:17)

Professed Christians today are believing ‘Everything’ but the Truth. Simply because most of them have NEVER been exposed to the truth. It’s an unfortunate reality however that their belief Systems has a very Strong tendency to Silence their Conscience to the Convicting Power of the Holy Spirit. Thus when they do hear the Truth it cannot Cut them to the heart so that they would be motivated to Repent. When a person is convinced that some form of Doctrine is Correct, it is almost impossible to persuade them otherwise. To them the Bible Supports their fallacies and absolves them from and further punishment.

Will You Repent?

“God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.” John3:16

Does this Single Passage Capsulate the Gospel Message? Will you then merely ‘Believe’, and Trust that you have eternal life? Did you know that the Bible also says that the ‘Devils Believe’ and tremble? (James2:19) Are you then willing to stake your eternal destiny on the testimony of what men have said about John3:16? Is it Really ‘Faith Alone’ that Saves the Soul? Many think so, but the Real question is: ‘DID JESUS THINK SO?’

Jesus said that NOT Everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord will Enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who DOES the Will of My Father in heaven! Matt7:21. Is Doing the Will of God merely ‘Believing’ in Jesus? Again, many will tell you so. But yet Christ Himself answered the question of who would be Saved in Luke13:24, He said: “STRIVE to enter the Narrow Gate, for Many, I say to you, will Seek to Enter and NOT be Able!”

Your Churches tell you ‘Seek and you shall find’ but that’s only a PART of this Message. If you fail to STRIVE (that is put forth a strenuous effort in the face of all adversity) you Will NOT Enter. WHY? Because not only is the Gate Narrow it is also DIFFICULT and only a FEW will be able to find it. Matt7:14. No wonder the Apostle Peter proclaimed to the Saints that the ‘Righteous’ are Scarcely Saved!’ 1Pet4:18, or More Clearly: ‘Saved with GREAT Difficulty.’ It certainly appears that he understood the Gospel Message of His Lord in plain language.

Further is the aspect of ‘Repentance’, Preached as the Basic fundamental Message from the Start. When Jesus described those coming to Him at the Judgment, claiming good works done in His Name, He called them ‘Workers’ of Iniquity! (Matt7:22-23) They were Not among the FEW who had ‘Departed from Iniquity’ (2Tim2:19)

Under the God so loved the World Gospel, NO ONE is Departing from their Iniquity. In fact they are being taught the Very Opposite! That you come to Christ ‘in your sins’ He Receives you and Cleans you up later.

Is this REALLY what the Bible teaches? Are you Certain it’s Correct? Your Soul is hanging in the balance.

EVERYWHERE the Message of Repentance includes a Clearing of Wrong Doing BEFORE Pardon can be granted. (2Cor7:10-11) Surly this is an extremely Difficult concept for you to accept, having sit under the ‘Love’ Gospel for so long. But it’s TRUE none the less. John the Baptist and Christ Himself followed the Prophets and called for this kind of Repentance as the Single Condition to be Reconciled to God and enter the Kingdom. (Matt3:-10, Lk3:8)

Isaiah said: “Let the Wicked forsake his ways and the unrighteous man his thoughts. Let him RETURN to the Lord and He will have Mercy on him. For He will abundantly pardon.” Isa55:7

Hundreds of Passages could be cited proclaiming the exact Same Message of Repentance. So when the Lord compared His Message to that of the Prophets, He used Jonah as His example. (Luke11:29-32, Mt12:38-42) Upon hearing the Repentance message of Jonah the people Nineveh STOPPED sinning, shut down their city and Cried out to the Lord, assuming Nothing. Real Repentance includes a Season of godly sorrow in which the Pennant person STOPS or gets Clear of their Wrong Doings! (It Does Not happen after Salvation)

That’s why 2Cor7:11 Concludes by saying, “In ALL these things you PROVED yourselves to be CLEAR in this matter!” (Meaning PURE as in Acts15:9) THEREFORE a Genuine Repentance unto Saving Faith is PROVEN by DEEDS, Just as the Bible Says! Acts26:18. It’s NOT Repeating words, Receiving anything or Trusting in a concept.

You have been LIED to! Your Eyes are Closed to the Truth! OPEN them and TURN while Mercy is still available.

“To Open their Eyes and to TURN them from Darkness to Light and from the Power of Satan to God, that they May receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are Sanctified by Faith in Me!”

You MUST Break your Conditioning!!! Come Out from among them. Depart from Iniquity and Seek His Mercy. The Path will be Difficult and Narrow, every diversion under the sun will try to hinder your progress, including your own passions and desires. The Old man has to Die in Repentance…..DEAD TO SIN….(Rom6:4-6) The Body of Sin Done away with so that you are NO LONGER a Slave to Sin! You Come out of Repentance a NEW Creation in Christ. (2Cor5:17) Not Still addicted to it in need of ‘Christian Counseling’. You were NOT Born a Sinner! (You became addicted to sin by long practiced habit. Eph2:1-3)

The Love Gospel has the Process Backward. You supposedly get Saved in your sins and God cleans you up later. But admit it. DOES ANYONE Ever get Cleaned up? Many get worse, but None are released from their bondage. They fall under the Deception that sin humbles them and learn to Love the Message that they are poor sinners saved by Grace. Soon the Conscience is Seared and the heart waxed cold. The Light in them is Darkness and how Great is that Darkness! DON’T let it happen to you! Repent Now, like the People of Nineveh and find His Mercy.

Contact: www.standingthegap.org

This looked like a "form letter" to me, and something this man probably sent to a lot of people, thinking it was his ministry to do so. It contained a lot of "wordage" but the message seemed clear as I read it through. This man was claiming that WORKS were necessary for salvation, and that no one could be saved by faith alone in the atonement of Christ. He further denied the atonement of Jesus on man's behalf for man's sins. I wrote the man back in the following manner, trying to get to the main issue:

Dear Sir,

Thanks for writing back. I have read your treatise and am greatly saddened to see you deny the blood atonement of jesus Christ. If, what you say is true, then Jesus died for nothing on the cross, and I would ask you, "Why did he die?"

The Pauline epistles are clear, salvation is by FAITH alone without works. That's just Bible. You can explain it away if you like, but it's still in the Bible. And as far as imputed righeousness (a bible term) Paul is clear that when a man believes, God IMPUTES unto him HIS righteousness. How sad you choose to reject this plain and simple Bible teaching. (Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for Righteousness. Please Read Rom. 4:1-5, as these verses are very clear!)

You further stated:

"Think about it a moment. You believe that Jesus died on the Cross ‘in your place’ and took on Himself your sins and the penalty due them. If you TRUST in that, and perform whatever ritual the church you attend demands, you are Saved."

You have shown yourself of what you truly believe in this staement, but the simple little word "AND." For you write, "If you TRUST in that, AND perform..."

Salvation is not by faith AND works. It is by faith alone. To think you can add to it or perform something yourself to be saved or stay saved, is to say that what Jesus did on the cross amounts to nothing, and it is ineffective for you can get to heaven without his blood atonement. This is a slap in the face to Jesus who PAID IT ALL on Calvary.

However, you say that DEEDS are a factor in your salvation. This is not true. Either Jesus saves you or you save yourself. But you can never please God by your works, for they will always be the works of dirty, rotten, sinner. The only way to please God is by faith (Heb. 11:6 says For without FAITH it is impossible to please God), and that faith or TRUST must be in what Jesus did to pay for your sins in your place on your behalf. It is not what we DO to get us to heaven, it is what Jesus DID for us. For no one can get to heaven himself, and no one can be "good enough" to make it to heaven. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God!

You wrote:

"Does this Single Passage Capsulate the Gospel Message? Will you then merely ‘Believe’, and Trust that you have eternal life? Did you know that the Bible also says that the ‘Devils Believe’ and tremble? (James2:19) Are you then willing to stake your eternal destiny on the testimony of what men have said about John3:16? Is it Really ‘Faith Alone’ that Saves the Soul? Many think so, but the Real question is: ‘DID JESUS THINK SO?’ "

You are correct, the devils believe and tremble. But what do they believe? They believe that God exists, and they believe he died for sinners, but they believe it with their HEAD, not with their HEART, and they do not believe that Jesus did it for them!

You again are trying to make salvation based upon what man does. Good luck with that, because you'll never be saved, cause you'll never please God no matter how good of a life you live, cause you'll still be a sinner in need of forgiveness, and that forgiveness only comes through Jesus Christ's shed blood atonment and faith in it.

I believe that the modern church is very apostate. They do teach things that are foreign to the scriptures. Sadly, they often tell people just come to Jesus the best way they know how and ask him into their heart or beg him for forgiveness. But this is not salvation. You must TRUST what Jesus did for you on your BEHALF for your sins, the just for the unjust, so he might bring you to God (Remember in my last email I quoted 1 Peter 3:18 which mentions this).

So thank you for your response. But it's sad that you are so wrong. Sadder still that if you believe your works are essential to get you to heaven then you will not get there. You are lost and on your way to Hell, trusting in your own righteousness instead of the righteousness of God. You are the one who must REPENT, or turn from trusting in what you do hoping that will get you to heaven, to trusting solely, completely, and totally in what Jesus did for you.

Salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ and trusting his shed blood alone for forgiveness. When you trust, that moment you receive the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13) and it is he who helps you in your Christian life to overcome sin. But even though a sinner is saved, he can still sin. Look at the words of the apostle Paul in Romans chapter 7:

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

According to your argument, the apostle Paul is NOT saved, because he sins and does wrong. How sad.

Salvation saves a man's soul, but his body is still sinful and corrupt. It is at the rapture that he receives the redemption of his body (Eph. 4:30) and receives a glorified body.

So, Mr. I stand in doubt of you and your WORKS doctrine of salvation. Just like the Pharisees of old, your self-righteousness shows through, as you try to say that we have to DO things to get ourselves to heaven. If this be the case, then what Jesus DID means nothing. I reject such a foolish thing. So does Jesus!

Below are some verses that prove it's not by WORKS that we are saved or can stay saved, it's only by FAITH in the WORK OF GOD in paying for our sins in our place at Calvary, through the only means that God will accept--A BLOOD ATONEMENT.

Acts chapter 13:
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Col. chapter 1
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Gal. 2:

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Rom. 4:

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,


I pray you will turn from your foolish way of denying the blood atonement of Jesus Christ and thinking you must WORK your way to heaven, for if you don't you'll split hell wide open when you die!

In the meantime, I'll do as I'm commanded in scriptures and "turn away" from such as you who deny the power of God (the Gospel), as instructed in 2 Tim. 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Further, I'll heed Jude chapter 1:

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I clearly find men like you in 2 Peter 2:

1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

You need to read the Pauline epistles first, for Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles (Rom. 11:13), and his books are the heart of New Testament doctrine, and God revealed to him the Gospel, which is found in 1 Cor. 15:1-4:

15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

It is salvation by faith in what JESUS DID, not what we do to get us to heaven. Eph. 1 gives us a great truth:

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

When a man truly believes, he is saved by FAITH (trusting) and he receives the Holy Spirit of God, which seals him (Eph. 4:30). Salvation is ETERNAL LIFE. If you can lose it, it wasn't eternal. When a man is saved, he's ETERNALLY REDEEMED, all sins are forgiven, past, present, and future. He is a child of God, who has been BORN AGAIN.

So that's it. Congratulations if you've read this far. I doubt you will. But you need to be born again, for what you write makes is sound like you are not. If you think your righteousness will get you to heaven, you are sadly mistaken.

Below are some of my books online that you should read. They clearly present the "false gospel" preached in many churches today, and it shows the importance of the TRUE GOSPEL of salvation by FAITH in the BLOOD of Jesus Christ alone, plus nothing minus nothing.

http://www.rrb3.com/mypub/books/hrsy_sin_pryr.htm

http://www.rrb3.com/mypub/books/how_to_call_on_Lord.htm

http://www.rrb3.com/mypub/books/import_of_blood.htm

http://www.rrb3.com/mypub/books/where_is_blood.htm

I pray you are an honest seeker, and not a glory hound who will not study the truth, having his mind made up he's right and everyone else is wrong. And I pray you will get saved, for I don't want to see you go to Hell. Jesus doesn't either, that's why he DIED for your sins.

Sincerely,

Robert Breaker

This man with his "standing in the gap" ministry resplied to my email this way:

Robert, thank you so much for your desire to at least hear what I have to say, we both are at odds to what the word of God actually teaches about faith, works, salvation, repentance, etc... What you have done is take the word of God out of context, and out in your opinion, that ay have been formed many years ago, by other apostate pastors posing as men of God, what you send will not convince me, we are saved in our sins, or that we must earn anything, I repent, seek His mercy, and follow Him because I love Him and want to please Him, not earn anything.

I wont include anymore scriptures for you to twist to fit your agenda, and false teaching, the articles I sent you were a warning for you to repent and teach the truth, which may leave you without your followers who want their ears tickled by your save in sin gospel.

I assure you I am not preaching works salvation, but, repentance proved by deeds, and a working faith in love.

its sad to see a teacher of truth as you say you are, take and twist the truth into lies, and then accuse me of preaching works salvation.

One thing, say you are married, and you fell into adultery, behind your wife's back, she found out, and you felt bad about what you did to her, now in your teaching you are actually saying, you can continue in your adultery, while expecting your wife to forgive you. It doesn't work that way, you must put your sin to death, through repentance, then seek your wife's mercy, asking and pleading for her forgiveness, and not assuming she will forgive you. Do you think God turns His back on our wicked sin, allowing His holy spirit to fill a dirty vessel? No way.

One more thing you didn't get from what I sent, Christ died on the cross to ransom us from the bondage of sin, to bring us from the darkness to the light, and to put to death the sins that lead to death, FIRST, before we can assume He will forgive us, this isn't earning anything, this is an obedient faith, that works through genuine repentance, leading to salvation.

If you would only take the time to see what the early church taught on this you would clearly never taught, this instant sinners prayer salvation, they never taught, imputed righteousness, moral transfer, election, we are just sinners saved by grace.

Remember Robert, the road is narrow, we must put to death our flesh, Gal 2-20, first, then seek His mercy, not just receive, believe, trust, and confesses our sins, NO, we must put the sins to death first, seek His mercy, not to earn anything from God, we assume nothing, and making Christ our cover for all our sins because we are just poor sinners saved by grace, is a lie I am afraid.

And if you believe which I can assume you do, all our sins are forgiven, past, present and future because Jesus took out wrath on the cross, then you believe one can never lose their salvation, thus you are preaching saved in sin, we can live as vile sinners, and still make it into heaven.

Ditch the reformed teachings you hold dear to, get back to what the early church actually taught on these issues, and remember what Jesus taught as well as Paul and the apostles, is totally opposite of what the reformed teachers taught, that has now infested most to all the churches today, how sad.

I also have great peace now, because I take no pride in my works, but thank My God daily for His great mercy bestowed upon me, while I lived the lie, thinking I was just a wretched sinner saved by grace, and that I could continue in unrepentant sins that lead to death and still make it onto heaven, this Robert isn't works, but the heart of a man, who has come to the end of self, forsaken the world and its vast entertainments, and worldliness, and paganism, and come into a saving faith, not produced from my works, but from my heart, and gratitude, for His great mercy and grace, its a pleasure for me now to obey His work, keep myself on the narrow road, which FEW will find, and a few means a few, not millions who attend Billy Graham crusades, say a simple, ABC prayer and their in like Flynn.

Your teachings encourage people to stay lukewarm I am afraid, I know you believe what you wrote to be true, lets just pray for each other, as we will not change each others mind, but I pray you understand my heart and passion to be obedient to my Lord, following Him on the narrow Road.

Sincerely,

Tommy

I've read this through several times. This guy says he's not trusting in his works, but from what he says, it looks like he's trusting in his works, or the fact that he doesn't sin, or that he "repents" when he does sin. I wrote him back like this:

Thank you Tommy. I will defintely pray for you.

I do see where you are coming from though. there are lots of people who think, "I'm saved, and all my sins are forgiven so I can do what ever I want, and then they do!" I believe that's the wrong attitude! They ought to live holy because they are saved, and want to live holy because they appreciate what Jesus did for them.

I believe you work for Christ because you are saved, not to get or stay saved. It sounds like your position is you must have works to prove you are saved. With this I agree. By your fruits you shall know them. But you take it to such an extreme that you make it sound like you think a person's salvation depends upon their works. This is wrong.

But I'll not argue with you.

I do agree that when a person sins, he should repent. Clearly. But let me ask you a question. WHAT IS REPENTANCE? It is a word that means many things to many people. How do you define it?

I am very much against the Sinner's Prayer, and the shallow soul winning of today of just trying to get a person to quickly repeat a prayer. I believe a person must first HEAR and then UNDERSTAND the Gospel, and then receive it from their heart by REPENTANCE (which I define as the Bible does, turning from trusting their righteousness to Christ's righteousness).

So I'll close with this. All my beliefs and all yours aside. When you die and stand eye ball to eye ball with Jesus Christ and he says, "Why should I let you into heaven?" How will you respond? I will respond in only two words. How about you. I would be interested in hearing your answer to this question.

Robert

So far I've asked the man several questions, and he never answered them. Yet, I answered all of his questions. So after sending the above email, I was hoping to finally hear his answer to my question. But, instead, I received the follow response to my email under the title of "message denied:"

Your message was NOT accepted by recipient. You were warned, and sent the truth.

So according to this man, the TRUTH is that Jesus is not the substitute for our sins in on place dying for our sins on our behalf. He further believes that you do not get saved by FAITH alone, and he says that we should listen to LOGIC rather than the Bible. Can you say "C-R-A-Z-Y?" There is only one thing we can say about a man like this: He's a FALSE PROPHET! And, I can't help but wonder if a person like this isn't lead by "SEDUCING SPIRITS" (DEMONS!) when he denies the atonement of Jesus Christ and salvation by faith alone.

I can only hope God will open his eyes and he will get saved.

Focusing on Each Other Instead of Focusing on the Issue

I think probably the greatest tool that Satan has is to get people's eyes off of what's happening and getting people's eyes on one another.

As I watch American Politics, I see this is exactly what's happening today with the whole "debt" issue. Democrats are against Republicans and will not pass or sign anything they put out. Republicans are the same way. Thus, they only do what's best for their party. They focus on EACH OTHER instead of on the important ISSUE. They are not interested in what's right and what's best for the country. They are only intersested in themselves and furthering their political careers. Because of this, they are at a standstill, a deadlock, neither one wanting to give an inch, and neither one wanting to compromise with the other. Thus, Satan has won, as nothing can be done.

And who suffers for it? The American People.

Sadly, there is politics in the Church as well. And, all too often this politics mirrors the national politics in Washington. Just as politicians focus on one another rather than on the issue, so too Pastors, Missionaries, Evangelists, etc. focus on one another. And often, they are only interested in making themselves or their "camp" or "Bible College affiliation" look good, while lamblasting and putting down others. This is why there is so much bitter infighting among "Independent Baptist" Preachers. They don't get along, and it's because they focus on EACH OTHER rather than on the differences that supposedly divide them.

Instead of having Bible Studies and looking at truth, and discussing it, most Indies (what I call Independent Baptists) will not even crack open their Bibles and look at it with other ministers. They claim to be Bible Believers, but they refuse to have Bible Studies with others.

Instead they focus on the man himself. Once they find something they can use as an excuse to make someone they don't like look bad, or find a way to make them look not as spiritual as themselves, or somehow make them look stupid, then they can write that person off, and not even look at what that person is teaching. But what if that person has a good point?

The Independent Baptist's answer is: "So what! Who Cares!" And the person is blackballed and his doctrine, ideas, and words are not even looked at.

This is sad, but this is rampant in our churches today. Instead of unity in Christ and uniting around what the Scriptures teach, there is much dissention and division in Christian circles, and very little charity.

I speak from experience. This is what happened to me. I was part of a big Independent Baptist movement. But someone lied about me, and told people I was crazy and such. They said, "Bro. Breaker is against PRAYER all together!"

But that is simply not so. However, because they said it, and they focused on ME instead of on my teaching (which is nothing more than sound Bible Doctrine), I was blackballed and they told those within their group not to even listen to me at all. The focus was on ME, not on the scriptures.

Next, they told people things like, "Breaker has gone off the deep end!"

And finally, they LIED by saying that I called my old Pastor a "heretic." But I never said such a thing. Those were words that a person tried to put in my mouth that I never uttered.

Thus, the focus was on me, not on my teaching. I was a "crazy person" teaching false doctrine in their eyes, and I was ridiculed, mocked, and made fun of. But never once was what I was teaching looked at by any of them.

However, what I was teaching was nothing more than what I was taught from the Bible by the very man who turned against me! I went back and read his commentaries, his tracts, even a letter of his to my own father, and they all confirmed that what he once taught is what I'm teaching, and that I was not the one who changed.

The problem was that he and his croonies had changed and I had not. But I could not turn the focus on them. They would not allow it. If I tried to say, "You have changed your position," then I was labeled the crazy person who was speaking foolishly and the heretic that no one should listen to. They even attacked my credibility, and claimed I wasn't a Pastor, I never led anyone to the Lord, and I never started any Churches in Honduras.

That was fine with me. If they wanted to lie about me and discredit me, not problem. I know it's a lie and so does Jesus. But it does hurt some, especially since they were drawing a line and pushing me across it and telling others not to go along with me in anything.

Truly, I can't wait till the Judgment Seat of Christ, so that God will show them they were wrong.

But that's not important now. What is important is the issue itself.

The Issue once more is this, "Can a person be saved by prayer, and is it possible for a person to be tricked into trusting in their Prayer rather than trusting in Jesus Christ's shed blood alone for salvation?"

The answer is: "No on is saved by their prayer, and YES A PERSON CAN BE DECEIVED INTO THINKING THEIR PRAYER SAVES THEM!" This is exactly what happened to me. It also happened to my wife, and it's happened to many others.

In our day and age of "shallow soulwinning" in which a "soul winner" gives a person a presentation of only three or four verses from the Roman's road and then quickly pressures them to "Repeat a Prayer," it is common to see people tricked or deceived into thinking they are saved BY their prayer. That is they think the prayer itself is the SAVING MEDIUM.

This leads to a person eventually doubting whether they are saved or not, and the remedy for this by those same "soul winners" is for them to just "say the Prayer over again for ASSURANCE." Oftentimes, people pray the prayer over and over again night after night, HOPING they'll be saved because of it. But are they? Are they?

That's the issue, but nobody will touch it. Nobody wants to think that Churches are full of people like I was, who might have sincerely prayed a prayer, but have never been born again. It's because they are trusting in what they've DONE (their prayer), and not in what Jesus DID FOR THEM (in dying on the cross in their place for their sins.)

This "1-2-3, repeat after me" type of soulwinning often does more harm than good, as it does not give a clear presentation of the Gospel. Often, many are left thinking their prayer saves them. But where is this in the Bible? People like this are not saved. They cannot be. For if they trust their prayer, then they trust their own righteousness, and not Christ's alone.

But where are those faithful ministers of the Gospel who are pointing this out? They are few and far between. They don't want to "rock the boat." They just want to go along with what everyone else is doing, especially when it's easy to get a person to "repeat a prayer" and doing so makes it easier to "BRAG UPON YOURSELF and HOW GOOD OF A SOUL WINNER YOU ARE!" (Modern Christianity has become a "braggers club" and it's no longer about Jesus and what he's done for Sinners, rather it's about you and what you do for Jesus.)

So we see the focus is not on the Issue, rather on the man. People who talk like I do, are looked upon as "anti-soul winning." But that's not the case! I am very much for Soul Winning! I'm just against doing it in a shallow manner in which a person can end up deceived into thinking they are saved when they aren't!

But very few want to look at this issue. It's just easier to label someone a "Calvinist" who doesn't do things the same way you do. (I'm very much against Calvinism, by the way!).

So who gets hurt when the focus turns from the issue itself to attacking each other personally? Why lost Sinner's of course. They are the ones losing out. For they are left LOST and still going to Hell, but no one seems to care enough about them to make sure they are presenting them the Gospel clearly, and instructing them plainly to TRUST THE BLOOD OF JESUS ALONE for salvation.

But I care. I care a lot about lost souls. I truly want them to be saved. I also care about lost religious people who think they are saved, but aren't. I want to see them saved as well.

But once again, when I say something like that, the PHARISEES will bypass the issue and go straight to focusing on me, saying things like, "Oh, you just want to talk people out of their salvation! That's all you are interested in."

But that's not true at all! If a person is saved, I don't want to cause doubt. However, at the same time, as I read the scriptures, I see that a person who is saved will have assurance. So could it be that those who don't have assurance aren't saved to begin with, and they are the ones who truly need to be saved?

In closing, it's sad to see how focusing on each other instead of on the issue itself has led not only to the downfall of America and its economy, but also to the downfall of the Church as well. Because "politicians," both secular and religious, would rather play their silly games and exalt themselves in the eyes of others, people get hurt. In American politics, those who get hurt are the American taxpayers, who are asked to pay higher taxes for the stupid spending of those in power. But why should we have to pay for their mistakes and mismanagement funds?

In the religious world, the pride of ministers wanting to be looked upon as right while everyone else is wrong has led to a false gospel and a deceitful plan of salvation which gets a Sinner to DO something with their lips, without trusting only in what Jesus has DONE from the heart. And, even though this method makes the soul winner look good in the eyes of the "brethren" by counting how many people he's gotten to "repeat him in prayer," it doesn't really get a lot of folks truly saved. Instead, lost people suffer for it, as many of them get a false assurance of salvation, thinking they are going to heaven based upon their prayer, rather than on the Biblical means of faith from the heart.

Sadly, the issue is never dealt with. Politicians don't deal with the national debt, and get it paid off completely, and most Preachers don't deal with man's sin debt, pointing him to the shed blood of Christ that paid for it.

Instead, they are happy attacking on another, exalting themselves, and forgetting about the important issues.

Truly the Judgment will be terrifying for such men who only care about themselves rather than truly caring about others enough to deal with the issue so that they might be saved.

For more about THE REAL ISSUE of salvation and the sad deception of deceiving people into trusting their PRAYERS instead of in Christ Jesus' bloody PROPITIATION for man's sins, go to:

http://www.rrb3.com/mypub/books/hrsy_sin_pryr.htm

This deals with the ISSUE at hand.

Chivalry is not dead!

I had a great experience yesterday as my wife and daughter and I went to Lowe's. As I walked around the store looking for supplies, I happened upon a Preacher (more specifically an Indpendent Baptist Pastor) that I knew. He and I had written to each other in the past, and quite frankly I don't agree with the man, who preaches so hard on the subject of Repentance, without defining what it means Biblically, that he almost makes it a work of salvation that someone must do before they believe.

But even though we don't see eye to eye on everything, I was surprised the man walked right up to me and said, "Bro. Breaker, how are you?"

He then put out his hand to shake mine! We then talked for a few minutes, and had a great time of fellowship.

What a contrast to the other "Christian" the other day who just walked by and wouldn't even speak to me, much less shake my hand!

I guess that just goes to show you Chivalry is not dead! If only all Christians could be so cordial as this Pastor was. And although I don't agree with him in everything, I have a new found respect for the man for stopping to shake my hand and speak with me. This is how Christian love should be.

Learning More about the Scuttlebutt Against Me

Today I learned a little more about why my old home church doesn't like me, when I talked to a guy who attends there and told him about how I was "snubbed" by one of the members of that church yesterday. I then asked him if knew of any reason why they would not want to have anything to do with me. His answer to me was that he heard they preached against me because I was "preaching too hard on the blood of Jesus Christ," and that I guilty of saying a man had to "understand" the Gospel before he could beleive it.

I looked at the man who told me this, I then looked at my wife, and I then shrugged my shoulders as I looked back at the man saying, "So, what's wrong with that???"

How could these be bad things, as they are just sound Bible doctrine? And how could someone be against preaching those things? For the Bible clearly teaches salvation by faith in the blood (Rom. 3:25), and believing only by first hearing (Rom. 10:17) and then understanding (Acts 28:27).

He continued to tell me that he believed (and he inferred that it's what his church believes also) that anyone who just comes to Jesus today, he will in no wise cast out. To them, that means if a man will just come in sincerity, with no understanding whatsoever, asking God to save him, then according to them, God will do so.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. This is not what that church used to believe and teach. In fact, it is the exact opposite! For case in point, check out this quote by the Pastor in the 1980's: "If you are saved, you know that the only way to heaven is the substitutionary blood atonement of Jesus Christ. If you don't know that, it's because you are lost."

This pretty much says it all. You have to KNOW how to get saved before you can get saved. In other words, you have to KNOW what to place your faith in before you can place your faith in it to save you. But this very same preacher, who is still the pastor, is saying today things like, "You don't have to know anything to get saved!" And, "Just come to Jesus the best way you know how!" How different this is from what he used to preach and believe.

Did you know you can be "sincere," but still be sincerely lost! Unless a soul comes to Jesus Christ with the understanding that salvation is through trusting in his blood sacrifice for their sins, that person is not saved. It's certainly not because I say so. Nor is it because my old Pastor said so in the 80's (even though he's saying something much different now). It's because THE BIBLE SAYS SO!

It doesn't matter how "sincere" someone is. What matters is what they do with Jesus Christ and his sacrifical blood atonement on Calvary. If they try to come to God outside of the Finish work of Jesus Christ, THEY WILL NOT BE SAVED! You cannot bypass Calvary or the Gospel and expect God to save you. You must come to God through Jesus Christ, and you must come through the knowledge of the Gospel.

The man I talked to then gave his testimony, in which he said he didn't know when he got saved. He said, "I don't know all the details, I'm going to leave those to the Lord and let him explain them."

It was like he was confessing to not knowing when he got saved, and it made me wonder if he was even saved to begin with! How can a guy say, "I believe a man can get to God without knowing or even hearing about the Gospel as long as he's sincere?" How is that even possible?

The guy then said, "I just believe that when that women touched the hem of the garment of Jesus, she was healed! For God saves all sincere folks that come to him!"

I don't think he understood that passage happened before Jesus died on the Cross, and it was not for SALVATION, rather for healing that the woman came. He should have known that though, as his Pastor (my old Pastor) is very good at making a distinction between the Old Testament and the New by teaching dispensations.

How weird this whole thing was. I even told the guy that my Dad also went to his church and its Bible School years ago (before I went there) and when he went there the Pastor taught that a man had to hear, understand, and know the Gospel before he could be saved, and salvation was by faith alone in the blood atonement. But now that very same Pastor was preaching the very opposite and has begun lamblasting me for preaching it! How strange. It's almost like this is an episode of the Twilight Zone or something!

What's worse is everyone who goes to that church reveres the Pastor as though he is above reproach and above sin. They claim he is the greatest Bible teacher that ever lived (and yes, he is a great Bible teacher), and they exalt him almost to the point of infalibility. They also believe that he is right because of his hard stand against apostasy, as he preaches hard against those who have perverted truth and preach tradition rather than the word of God. But they never stop to think that it's possible that their mighty leader has apostasized himself by preaching something different than he used to.

It just blows my mind that our "crime" in the eyes of those at that church is that we "PREACH THE BLOOD TOO HARD" and that we are too dogmatic in stating the sound Biblical truth that a man has to hear and understand before he can be saved. How can this be?

I remember being taught in Bible school that the "apostates" were those ungodly "liberals" who omitted the Blood of Jesus. When we students heard things like that, we all shouted heartily, "Hear, Hear!" or "Amen!"

But now my old Bible school, and even students I graduated with, are the ones guilty of making light of the blood of Jesus, but now I'm the "bad guy" and they are the true Bible Believers. How does this even make sense? They are omitting the Blood, not me!

I talked to another friend on the phone today and told him about some of this, and he told me not to worry about it. He said, "That's the Independent Baptist movement you! They are all preaching and teaching the same thing and if you don't preach what they do, then you are ostracized. It's not important if you are sticking with the Bible and they are departing from it. If you are not like them, then you are a heretic in their eyes. For they believe everyone should be the same as they are!"

Can you spell C-U-L-T?

I then told my friend about how the member of that church I met at the mall wouldn't even shake my hand or give me the time of day. He said, "Yep, that's how Independent Baptists are. They have no love for anyone who isn't part of their 'click' or 'camp.' They are only interested in bragging on themselves and their 'groups' and have no time for anyone who's not going alone with them teaching what they do."

It's so sad, but what he said rang true. And thankfully, I'm not the only one seeing this. More and more people are starting to wake up to the fact that the Independent Baptist movement is going down the drain hole, and is apostasizing at an alarming rate. Its substitution of sound Bible doctrine for Baptist tradition, and it's "secret society" mentality has lead to its hierarchy learning how to enslaves its members to their own will. For if their members don't shut up and obey them, they are automatically ostracized and labelled. That way they are made out to be the bad guy, or the opposition to the "man of God" who wishes others to view him as "suffering oppostion for the truth." (But what if he is the compromiser and those who are questioning are only doing so because what that man is preaching is not what the Bible says?)

The leaders squelch out any form of questioning and demand their congregations follow them as the absolute authority, instructing their members not to even speak to those who don't follow them, lest they might be "tainted" by their independent and resistant attitude to follow their dogmatical rule. In short, they have become the Pharisees of Old who desire fame, money, and power.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sick and disgusting. I have a friend who has started studying some modern Independent Baptist traditions in light of the scriptures and he is finding many of them to be nothing more than modern money making schemes which are not only ANTI-BIBLICAL, but PENTECOSTAL in origin. And do you know what they are already labelling him for just asking questions? They have told him point blank that he has "no love for souls," and have labelled him as someone who is "dabbling in Calvinism."

He's not a Calvinist! He is not against soul-winning or Missions. He, like me, has looked at his Bible and looked at what modern Pastors are preaching and tried to see if they agree together. Often they do not, for many Preachers today are busy preaching "Programs" they've learned from their denominations, rather than simply preaching "PAULINE Doctrine" from the word of God.

It's like Independent Baptists today have their fingers in the air and they are looking for which way the wind blows. When they find it, they all flock together in unison and park there awhile. As they fellowship, they come up with modern new teachings, doctrines, and programs which work for them, but are foreign to the scriptures. As these are adopted by others, they point to their numbers and how so many use their methods, and then they ridicule anyone who refuses to do things their way. And then before you know it, they are off the deep end preaching apostate teachings instead of simply preaching the scriptures.

God help us! I look at it and it makes me laugh and it makes me cry. It's funny that people who call themselves "Christians" and even "Bible Believers" could tell me I preach the blood of Jesus too much, and I'm too hard on stressing the need to preach the Gospel plainly and clearly so sinners can hear and understand it. What could possibly be wrong what that? Wouldn't you think the Devil would be the one who wishes us to not preach the blood or the Gospel clearly?

Does that mean that those who are against me are really on the side of Satan? Hmmm.

I'll let you decide for yourself. As for me, this whole thing has only strengthened my faith. And I count it a joy to suffer for the sake of righteousness, for I chose to follow the Scriptures and not men who are change their positions. I'll preach the BLOOD, the BOOK, and the BLESSED HOPE. After all, what do I have to lose? What, are they going to refuse to shake my hand again? Maybe that's for the best!

A Strange Experience with another "Christian"

Today my wife and I went to the Mall to take back some gifts we received for Christmas. While there, a strange thing happened and I'm still scratching my head about it.

As my wife was waiting in line at the return counter, I walked with my daughter around the store. Walking towards the mall entrance, I spied an old Bible School student who graduated with me in my class from Bible Institute walking towards me. Upon recognizing him I blurted out happily surprised, "Hey, I know you!" And then I put out my hand to shake his.

But instead of him stopping and speaking with me, he quickly walked on by. All he said was, "Hey Brother," and then as he looked down at my extended right hand, he replied, "I don't think so brother!"

After he passed me without looking back, I stood there stunned, and all that could come out of my mouth was, "Boy, that was weird!"

I then just looked around for a while and tried to figure out what that was all about. It wasn't like we were good friends or anything, but we did hang out some, and we graduated together and were both members of the same church at one time. Why then did he brush me off so rudely?

At first I was surprised, then unable to believe what just happened. It really bothered me. I thought, "What evil have I done?"

My next thought was that maybe the old church that my wife and I left that he was still a member of was saying bad things about me, and because of that he didn't want to have anything to do with me, nor even shake my hand. Could that be the case? Could they have labeled me some kind of "heretic" for not compromising like they did and because of this, he didn't want to shake hands with a heretic?

Then I though, to myself, "I could never do something like that to anyone I knew. Even if they were horrible people or heretics, I still would say Hi to them and even shake their hand." Why wouldn't he do the same?

I know my old church doesn't like me because I left feeling they have compromised on some of their doctrinal positions and because they use a different Spanish Bible than I do. But does that mean I'm not "worthy" in their eyes to even shake hands with? I mean, I might not agree with them, and they with me, but I can at least be cordial! Can't they? (Visit my website at www.rrb3.com/breaker/home_page.htm and click on "Why we left our old home church" on the left to find out more about why we left).

As I walked around, I eventually realized the problem wasn't with me at all, it was with him. He just didn't want to be friendly. And if, in fact, he desired no fellowship with me for my stand on the truth, then I thought of it as a great honor. For what a great thing that someone would hate me so much they wouldn't even want to greet me in a handshake!

My wife and I talked about it afterwards, and she said, "Hey, cheer up! You didn't do anything wrong, and you are the good guy, as you were trying to be nice! You've never said anything bad about that man or your old church, and if they don't want to be nice to you, that's their loss!"

She was right, as usual. But the worst part was not knowing why he wouldn't stop and shake my hand and talk with me.

I talked with another friend later about it, and he said it was probably because he was a "man worshipper" and not a real Bible Believer, and he probably was thinking, "I can't wait to go tell Bro. So and So that I didn't even shake his hand!"

It's sad, but there are a lot of such people in the Independent Baptist Circles that are political, and do everything to be seen of men or to brag about themselves and what they do.

Was that the reason? I guess I'll never know. All I know is that was an odd experience, and his attitude was very anti-Christian, especially since he called me "brother." Is this how Christians are supposed to treat other Christians?